“Cross-Training in the Martial Arts: The Anatomy of Combat” – Bob Sykes of “Martial Arts Illustrated” Interviews Jamie Clubb about his New Ground-Breaking DVD

5. I personally found Mo Teague’s notion on the invisible fence to be the most interesting aspect on the DVD. How much more do you feel Master Teague can contribute to the ever-evolving world of martial arts?

Mo sees martial arts as falling into one of three categories: a sport, tradition and reality-based, and teaches in a way that encourages the development of the mind, the body and the spirit. These are his two triangle philosophies, which influenced a lot of my ideas when I first started teaching my own syllabus of Clubb Chimera Martial Arts last year. I like his frank attitude to training and self-defence in general. Mo is great at cutting the quick with martial arts. Self-defence is his priority, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have any regard for the sporting and traditional sides. Tradition is very evident in his attitude to respect and ethics whereas sport is as part of his attribute training. It’s great that he has finally started his own DVD series, but the world is still criminally deprived of a Mo Teague book. Someone should really get onto him about that. I’d certainly buy his autobiography! 

6. I could never imagine Mo Teague doing Tai Chi, however, going back ten years, the same could have possibly been said about Geoff Thompson, who’s latest message announced that we should ‘stop working out and start working in’ what’s your response to this, is Tai Chi a valid option for modern cross trainer?

That’s funny, as the last time I read about someone advising “to work in rather than out” it came courtesy of the renowned scholar and philosopher, Billy Connolly! It’s actually in the biography written by his wife.

I have studied more Qi gong than Tai Chi, and have trained only a very small amount of that, but still use it in my own teaching and training. I did my short period of training under the fantastic Chinese martial arts instructor, Neil Genge of the Bristol Wu Shu Academy. He would also take a traditional Yoga class before he began his traditional Chinese martial arts class. Since then I have seen Yoga exercises and internal methods used at the beginning of a Muay Thai class, a traditional Ju Jutsu class and a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu class. My view is that the barrier between internal and external methods is artificial. I have very little experience in actually practicing what it is often pigeon-holed as internal styles, but I consider myself to be a spiritual person and no self-appointed guru is going to tell me otherwise. I grew up on a real circus in a circus family that stretches back over three hundred years, so I am not impressed by “magic tricks”, neither am I impressed by brain-washing cults or fanatical religious sects, as I’ve seen enough of them in the flesh too. Rather I am more impressed by compassionate and wise individuals who through their own internal philosophy help others and society in general by cultivating positive energy through doing down-to-earth good tasks.

I think the martial artist begins with the external elements in life and then changes to more internal methods as time goes on. Martial arts history seems to dictate this, but human beings in general follow this pattern too. For example, Muhammad Ali claims that his best work started after his boxing career ended. Violence is limited, but often exposure to extremities pushes an individual to look more introspectively and spiritually, especially when they feel they have nothing left to prove externally. There is a lot to be said in the Dog Brothers philosophy of “higher consciousness through harder contact”. Geoff Thompson’s instructors say that eventually their training sessions with him evolved more into a meeting of minds and discussion than a physical experience, once the Animal Days were over. Even the pragmatic realist Iain Abernethy has written an engaging book called “Mental Strength” that delves into the less tangible aspects of personal advancement.

You mentioned Mo Teague, who is actually a very philosophical and spiritual man. As I said earlier, “Spirit” is part of his trinity philosophy, along with body and mind. His sessions may begin with the premise of being very pragmatic and streetwise, but he always ends with a discussion on how the martial artist should seek to better himself as an individual. Mo says that he is profoundly influenced by those who triumph over tremendous personal disadvantages and uses such examples to underline the ethic behind his “attribute” training.

On the flip side of this issue, however, I have often seen that the transition from the external to the internal can become misguided and even dangerous. The nineteen-eighties were a very external time for many. It was the era of the “Me Generation”, when people became obsessed with the external elements in life. Now I see so many spiritual casualties of that era; wealthy businessmen, for example, who cling to the esoteric, the quasi-religious and the quasi-occult in desperation to nurture the retarded spiritual element of their life. A close friend of my family was a hugely successful five-figure salary earner in London when she suddenly decided she wanted more from life. Sadly she dove headfirst into Qi gong training; trying to “master” it with the same expedience she had the legal world.  This resulted in her becoming seriously delusional and ended up having a nervous breakdown whilst attending a seminar in China.

The transition from external to internal should be a smooth and very natural process. It should not be a case of changing what forms you perform, but rather how you think and behave. Too often spirituality is a word banded about as an excuse to be lazy. However, if we are to look back at the great spiritual leaders of the past we see that they were all very hands-on people. Jesus was apparently raised in a carpenter’s family in an occupied country, Buddha had to throw off his life as a prince for poverty before achieving enlightenment and even the spiritual leaders of the twentieth century, like Mother Theresa and Ghandi, were pragmatic people who endured very physical lives.

So, yes, I think internal training is a healthy area of study for the martial arts cross-trainer, but I also believe it to be a natural destination for the dedicated external martial artist. This is something I reflected in my Clubb Chimera Martial Arts syllabus. I begin with no-nonsense self-defence, as this is at the core root of all martial arts, but as the student progresses into more extreme physical tests, so they are required to contribute to the local community and demonstrate individual expressions of their studies either through their own projects. They are also required to demonstrate independent research into other martial arts classes. This stops them from becoming close-minded in either the martial arts world or the real world.        

7. How in your view do the traditional martial arts fit into the modern relm of cross training?

There is a tremendous amount we can learn from the traditional practices. The majority of traditional arts were comprehensive systems and it has only been through modern commercialism or academia that they have become limited and unrealistic in application. Instructors like Iain Abernethy, Chris Rowen, Dennis Jones, Alan Gibson and Steve Rowe are fantastic ambassadors for the traditional arts. I love training with them, as they help me put all my other cross-training experiences into perspective.

For example, there were several Jeet Kune Do and Muay Thai stylists at the “Masters” seminar who were suddenly buzzing about what Alan, Iain and Chris were teaching. It really made me happy, as it was nice to see other “modern” martial artists getting what I was getting from cross-training in the traditional arts. Suddenly simple objectives were being defined. Alan’s point about concentrating on a direct path to the same target - that of the head - for efficiency made perfect sense. This is one of Wing Chun’s main teachings. Iain’s resistance training makes one clear distinction from the usual resistance training you might find in a full-contact sport: the objective is on self-protection rather than “winning”. Putting the onus on this goal underlines the primary intention and nature of traditional Karate, which is a system that was not created for winning competitions against other martial arts sportsmen, but rather ensuring survival in civilian combat. Chris Rowen used Karate’s core philosophy on developing the single strike by breaking down some very simple, but powerful hand techniques and drilled them in a realistic fashion. They were easy to pick up and made perfect sense to all those gathered.

Outside this seminar I was very impressed by the traditional Tai Chi and Wado Ryu Karate instructor, Steve Rowe. During one of his workshops he began a series of self-protection drills that would have not looked out of place in a Geoff Thompson, Peter Consterdine, Matty Evans or Mo Teague seminar. Then, once the principles had been established, we were given a simple method of remembering them when we don’t have the presence of a training partner: it’s called kata. Again, I emphasise the point, the teacher is all important – and so is an open mind.

8. Mixed martial arts and cross training is there a difference?

By definition you wouldn’t think so and Mixed Martial Arts clubs do encourage their students to train in specialist areas represented by certain martial arts. However, things have changed dramatically since the early days of Vale Tudo and the UFC. Many argue that Mixed Martial Arts or Vale Tudo is just a rule-set and not a set discipline. However, it is the rule-set that has defined the art. Although all individuals have their own interpretation of fighting – as with all things – a certain common style has emerged. A Mixed Martial Artists syllabus will include cross-training, but that cross-training will generally comprise of Muay Thai, Western Wrestling (be it Collegiaten or Freestyle or Greco Roman) and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Some also include Western Boxing, but this is less obvious. I would say that it has very much become a style unto itself and on a personal level I think it is a fantastic experience for any fit and healthy cross trainer to engage in. 

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